Cash account with variable interest / robo-adviser / crypto

[maxstocks]

Hi Evan!

I’m trying to move all my spreadsheets to Stocks Cafe now but I can’t figure out how to track some of my assets here. Below are few examples:

Cash accounts: Syfe Cash / Singlife / Money market funds

What is it?
Ultra low-risk saving accounts.

How does it work?
I can deposit and withdraw money from those accounts at any time. I receive interest on my balance ~daily. The yield is variable and can change daily/monthly/…

Robo-advisers: StashAway / Syfe

What is it?
Platforms that allow to have a diversified portfolio without hassle.

How does it work?
I can deposit and withdraw money from those accounts at any time. The platform invests my deposits into ETFs, collects dividends and any kind of rebates. They charge me flat fee on my balance. I don’t control when and how many underlying units are bought.

Crypto: Native staking / Lending / Providing liquidity

What is it?
Centralized or decentralized (smart-contracts) ways to earn an additional yield on crypto-currencies I hold.

How does it work?
I deposit one or more crypto-currencies into the platform. I receive interest in the same or different crypto-currency with some interval (hourly/daily/monthly).

How do I track all of them right now in spreadsheet?
I have a list of deposits & withdrawals that help me calculate the cost.
I also have a list of “current value” updated manually (normally once per month). The latest value is used to calculate P&L and previous values help to understand dynamics.

In case of cryptocurrencies I usually simplify it by converting everything into a single currency (usd/sgd/btc/eth) so it essentially becomes a cash deposit with variable rate.

How did I try to record it on stocks cafe?

Create “Other Asset”, each deposit “buy” units with the price 1 dollar.
But there is no way to just update the balance or add a fixed amount of earned interest.

On the “Payment” tab it expects me to enter amount per unit which can’t be easily calculated (or am I missing something?).
On the “Recent values” tab it expects me to enter the value per unit. Here I can calculate it somewhat simple as “current balance / cost” (and enter value like 1.18024 or 0.93252) for accounts denominated in USD/SGD. Though it feels wrong. It also doesn’t work for accounts denominated in BTC/ETH.

Do you have any suggestions on how to track such accounts? Or is it impossible and I should use stocks cafe only for stocks?

[evankoh]

Hi there,

Ha… This is quite a long message. Let me answer in parts.

@maxstocks

Cash accounts: Syfe Cash / Singlife / Money market funds

What is it?
Ultra low-risk saving accounts.

How does it work?
I can deposit and withdraw money from those accounts at any time. I receive interest on my balance ~daily. The yield is variable and can change daily/monthly/…

Since StocksCafe now supports Singapore T-Bills and SSB, I have been thinking of creating support for any other zero risk instruments. Unfortunately, it is not available yet. So, if you want do migrate these now, it has to be through Other Assets.

I intend to support zero risk instruments by end of March.

@maxstocks

Robo-advisers: StashAway / Syfe

What is it?
Platforms that allow to have a diversified portfolio without hassle.

How does it work?
I can deposit and withdraw money from those accounts at any time. The platform invests my deposits into ETFs, collects dividends and any kind of rebates. They charge me flat fee on my balance. I don’t control when and how many underlying units are bought.

This is not within my control. Until StashAway/Syfe provides APIs, it is impossible to support this. Hence you would have to again use Other Assets

@maxstocks

Crypto: Native staking / Lending / Providing liquidity

What is it?
Centralized or decentralized (smart-contracts) ways to earn an additional yield on crypto-currencies I hold.

How does it work?
I deposit one or more crypto-currencies into the platform. I receive interest in the same or different crypto-currency with some interval (hourly/daily/monthly).

StocksCafe already support any cryto in CoinGecko → [MUST READ] For Those Who Track Crypto in StocksCafe – StocksCafe Blog

As for the additional yield that you earn, I suggest to use dividend override to track/add them → How to Override Dividends - StocksCafe Academy

@maxstocks

I also have a list of “current value” updated manually (normally once per month). The latest value is used to calculate P&L and previous values help to understand dynamics.

You can update the latest value in Other Assets.

@maxstocks

On the “Payment” tab it expects me to enter amount per unit which can’t be easily calculated (or am I missing something?).

I think you can just use the Total Amount / Total Units to get the amount per unit? No?

@maxstocks

On the “Recent values” tab it expects me to enter the value per unit. Here I can calculate it somewhat simple as “current balance / cost” (and enter value like 1.18024 or 0.93252) for accounts denominated in USD/SGD. Though it feels wrong. It also doesn’t work for accounts denominated in BTC/ETH.

I think it should be “current balance / current units”?

@maxstocks

Do you have any suggestions on how to track such accounts? Or is it impossible and I should use stocks cafe only for stocks?

StocksCafe was originally created to focus on tracking stocks hence doing that is the easiest.
However, due to user requests, we did expand to various other instruments such as Crypto, T-Bills, SSB etc whenever possible. The challenge is usually not technical limitation but time limitation or money limitation because it is mostly one-man show and not a full-time job hence we cannot implement all features requested.

Cheers,
Evan

[maxstocks]

That was a super fast reply haha! Thank you.

I intend to support zero risk instruments by end of March.

Happy to hear!

Just a few clarifications:

This is not within my control. Until StashAway/Syfe provides APIs, it is impossible to support this. Hence you would have to again use Other Assets

Totally understand that. I’m fine to update the value manually. It would be just easier to input & see in historical numbers like “SG$xxx.xx” instead of “0.93252 per unit”. Maybe it could be a improvement for “other assets” in the future.

StocksCafe already support any cryto in CoinGecko → [MUST READ] For Those Who Track Crypto in StocksCafe – StocksCafe Blog

It supports it as a part of portfolio but not as a currency for “other asset”. If I try to create let’s say “Crypto.com ETH” asset and input ETH as a currency, I get the error “Invalid currency”.

As for the additional yield that you earn, I suggest to use dividend override to track/add them → How to Override Dividends - StocksCafe Academy

Sadly, it also doesn’t accept BTC/ETH as a currency for the dividend. Probably I’ll keep maintaining it in Google Sheets for now and just manually sync the final number to Stocks Cafe using “Other Assets” denominated in SGD/USD to have a global overview here…

I think you can just use the Total Amount / Total Units to get the amount per unit? No?

Nope. Because for the account I’m currently trying to insert the Total Units is 0. I spent the deposit and now it has only interest. Though I agree after I top up the account this month, I will probably be able to do “Total Amount / Total Units”.

I think it should be “current balance / current units”?

Yep. That is what I’m doing for my Robo account.

StocksCafe was originally created to focus on tracking stocks hence doing that is the easiest.
However, due to user requests, we did expand to various other instruments such as Crypto, T-Bills, SSB etc whenever possible. The challenge is usually not technical limitation but time limitation or money limitation because it is mostly one-man show and not a full-time job hence we cannot implement all features requested.

Thank you for your work. I understand the complexity and hope one day I will be able to replace my spreadsheet with Stocks Cafe completely

[evankoh]

@maxstocks

Totally understand that. I’m fine to update the value manually. It would be just easier to input & see in historical numbers like “SG$xxx.xx” instead of “0.93252 per unit”. Maybe it could be a improvement for “other assets” in the future.

I do not fully understand this. Can you share again? Also, I think better to create a feature request here if you are clear what you want to ask for → StocksCafe
One ticket/post one request easier for me to manage

@maxstocks

It supports it as a part of portfolio but not as a currency for “other asset”. If I try to create let’s say “Crypto.com ETH” asset and input ETH as a currency, I get the error “Invalid currency”.

Ah… Hmm… I think we did consider doing this previously but was pretty complicated.

@maxstocks

Thank you for your work. I understand the complexity and hope one day I will be able to replace my spreadsheet with Stocks Cafe completely

Ya. There are too many different use cases out there for StocksCafe to support
Will do our best to support as much as possible